MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
German Chancellor Friedrich Merz finds himself in a spat with President Trump. The spat started when Germany, along with other European countries, refused to help the U.S. with the war in Iran. Then last week, Chancellor Merz said of the U.S....
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CHANCELLOR FRIEDRICH MERZ: (Speaking German).
KELLY: "An entire nation is being humiliated by the Iranian leadership," he is saying, "especially by these so-called Revolutionary Guards." Well, that statement did not land well with President Trump. He threatened to shrink the number of U.S. troops stationed in Germany.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We're going to cut way down, and we're cutting a lot further than 5,000.
KELLY: A lot further than 5,000 troops, he says. So among the many questions raised by this, what are U.S. troops doing in Germany anyway? We're going to put that to Jeff Rathke. He is president of the American-German Institute. Welcome.
JEFF RATHKE: Thanks so much, Mary Louise.
KELLY: So I'll fill in just a little bit of the history here. The American military footprint in Europe dates back to the days after World War II, the defeat of Nazi Germany. I know the size of that footprint and the mission has changed quite a bit over the decades but start with that basic question. Why are there U.S. troops still there - what? - 80-plus years after the end of World War II?
RATHKE: It's a good question, and I think the fundamental answer is because the United States has an interest in what happens in Europe. For decades after the end of the second world war, the United States saw itself as a European power, not only because we cared about Soviet attempts to dominate Europe but because it was the most important economic partner for the United States in the world. And it still is, by the way.
KELLY: The troops in Germany, also U.S. stations troops in Italy, in Spain, in the U.K. - to the specific question of what they do, I often see this described as logistical hubs, like helping support the U.S. military effort, the U.S. war in Iran, for example. What does that actually look like?
RATHKE: Yeah. Well, the United States has armed forces from the U.S. Army, also from the U.S. Air Force. Those are the bulk of U.S. forces in Germany. The Air Force in particular runs the Ramstein Air Base. It's the headquarters of the U.S. Air Forces in Europe, and that is where you hear about the logistical hub function because if you look at the map and see U.S. flights, whether those are refueling - air-to-air refueling flights or other kinds of logistical support, many of them are routed through Ramstein Air Base. And it also plays an important information hub role beyond the, you know, planes moving back and forth.
KELLY: I'm glad you raised the information role. Personal note here, I was born in a U.S. Army field hospital in Germany because my dad was an Army intelligence officer, and he was stationed there. I raise that because the U.S. military footprint is bigger than the top line numbers suggest. There are spouses there. There are kids. There's - there are U.S. Army hospitals and schools and PX, and it can look like a small town.
RATHKE: Yeah, absolutely.
KELLY: So there are some 36,000 U.S. troops in Germany. Why would withdrawing that number we just heard from President Trump, 5,000 - why does that matter?
RATHKE: Well, it matters for a few reasons from my perspective. First, as we talked about earlier, the United States has an interest in what happens in Europe. And in - the particular troops that the United States would withdraw in this scenario, we don't know which unit it is, but probably these would be from the U.S. Army. It would be what they call a brigade combat team. So in other words, forces who would play a role if there were a land attack against Europe. And with a war being waged by Russia just a few hundred miles away in Ukraine, it's not an abstract scenario. And what the Trump administration intends to do, it seems, is to go back down where the United States was before Russia unleashed its full-scale war in Ukraine.
KELLY: And what would be lost if that happened?
RATHKE: Well, on the one hand, I think you lose the ability to deter Russia in the way that we have, along with our trans-Atlantic partners over the last few years. So fewer American troops in Europe means less threat, from a Russian perspective, that the United States will respond robustly and effectively if Russia threatens, let's say, a NATO member in Europe. That's, I think, the most immediate concern.
KELLY: So if I'm reading between the lines or listening between the lines to what you're telling us, it sounds like what you're saying is, this is not some American gift to Europe. This is a way for the U.S. to project its values, its ambitions, its military might worldwide.
RATHKE: Sure. The United States has an interest not only in European security, but in the ability to play a global leadership role. We do that mostly through our alliances, and those alliances depend on trust and predictability. So anything that undermines trust and predictability is also a lesson to others when they try to figure out how many of their eggs they should put in the American basket, how much they can rely on the United States for their security. And that's what's at - the bigger - that's the bigger issue that's at stake in these kinds of decisions.
KELLY: Jeff Rathke, he's president of the American-German Institute. Thanks so much.
RATHKE: It was a pleasure. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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