A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
We've just heard what President Trump is hoping to achieve at the meeting in Alaska, but how might Putin view it? For some insights, we've called up Andrei Soldatov. He's a Russian investigative journalist now with the Center for European Policy Analysis. He joins us from London.
So some analysts say merely meeting with President Trump is a symbolic win for Putin right out of the gate. Is it?
ANDREI SOLDATOV: Yes. It is a big win for Putin because, essentially, it means the end of isolation of the country, and also to have Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin in one room would be sold to the Russian audience as a sign that Russia is getting back its status of a superpower.
MARTÍNEZ: And how much does it matter that it's on U.S. soil in Alaska?
SOLDATOV: That also is a big deal because, of course, everybody knows in Russia that there are sanctions. And Putin is essentially a war criminal. And the fact that he could travel to the United States, it is a sign that Putin can get things back to normal.
MARTÍNEZ: So when these meetings and negotiations with Trump actually begin, what are Vladimir Putin's objectives? Because at least publicly, he's been seemingly inflexible with his demands. So is there any reason to think now that any of that has changed?
SOLDATOV: Well, to be honest, I think he's still quite unflexible (ph) with his demands because, first of all, he believes that his army is winning. So there is no urgency for him to get any kind of deal. At the same time, of course, he needs to address several things domestically, namely that lots of people in Russia got really tired of the war. So he needs to - at least to pretend that he's trying to achieve some sort of settlement.
MARTÍNEZ: If President Trump insists that Vladimir Putin follow through on any demands that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is making, how do you think he'll respond to that?
SOLDATOV: I don't expect a lot of flexibility from Putin, first of all, because it is extremely important for him to undermine the position of Zelenskyy. Otherwise, it doesn't work for Putin and for the Kremlin. They want the initial demand made back in 2022, that Ukraine should be denazified, whatever it means. But these days, it probably means to get rid of Zelenskyy. That is why Putin cannot be seen as someone who is agreeing to anything offered or demanded by Zelenskyy.
MARTÍNEZ: So if the Kremlin wants to denazify Ukraine, as they say, Volodymyr Zelenskyy will not be the president of Ukraine if Putin has his way.
SOLDATOV: Yes. That is the big demand of the Kremlin. This is only way he would be able to sell this meeting and this settlement to the Russian public and to himself, to be honest.
MARTÍNEZ: Now, Donald Trump has repeatedly set deadlines for Vladimir Putin to end the war in Ukraine. Back when he was not president, in 2023, he told Sean Hannity on Fox News that he could end the conflict in 24 hours.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I would tell Putin, got to settle. I would tell Zelenskyy, you got to settle. I would tell one you're going to load up with money. I'd tell the other you're not going to get any money.
MARTÍNEZ: Now, since then, multiple deadlines he has given to Vladimir Putin have come and gone. When Vladimir Putin hears these deadlines, what do you think he thinks of that?
SOLDATOV: I don't think he takes them really seriously because many things that we expected to happen in Russia never happened. For instance, while lots of economists told the public back in 2022 that the Russian economy would crush under the sanctions, it never happened. And that gives Vladimir Putin a sense of, well, that he can, well, keep going for at least a year, maybe two years.
MARTÍNEZ: And President Trump has also talked about what kind of relationship - that he actually has a decent relationship with Vladimir Putin. Is that true, or is that something that Putin doesn't mind that Trump believes?
SOLDATOV: Well, there is a very dark vision of what is going on in the United States despite Donald Trump. A lot of people in Moscow believe in the idea and conspiracy theory of deep state. They believe they have only two years, maybe less, until the midterm elections in the United States. So they are convinced that they can get something from Trump, but it would be short-term and would not last for longer. That is why they see all these moves as purely tactical moves.
MARTÍNEZ: Andrei Soldatov is a Russian investigative journalist and a senior fellow at the Center for European Policy Analysis. Thank you very much.
SOLDATOV: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF ELLIOTT SMITH'S "UNKNOWN SONG (INSTRUMENTAL)") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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