MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Let's go back to this question of Ghislaine Maxwell potentially meeting with DOJ officials and the possible release of grand jury testimony in the Epstein case. We've got Elliot Williams on the line to talk about that because he was a deputy assistant attorney general at the Justice Department during the Obama administration. Good morning, Elliot. Thanks for joining us once again.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS: Good morning, Michel.
MARTIN: So Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche has said he's requested a meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell who's serving time, as we said, for her role in Jeffrey Epstein's sexual abuse of women and girls. What do you think the administration is hoping to get out of this meeting?
WILLIAMS: I think they're hoping to quell the PR crisis that they're in the middle of right now, but there's not much that they really can get out of this meeting, for the reasons that were laid out by Ryan and Jenna prior to this. You know, stepping back, Michel, fundamentally, it's a good thing to meet with someone who's in prison who might have useful information.
The problem is, they're going to have to give her a deal of some sort, whether that's in the form of a pardon or a cooperation agreement. And if they have to acknowledge that, that could be a huge, very embarrassing concession. But if she has information about defendants, by all means, they ought to find out what she's got.
MARTIN: So, you know, the Department of Justice in Trump's first term said, quote, "the defendant's willingness to brazenly lie under oath about her conduct, including some of the conduct charged in the indictment, strongly suggests her true motive has been and remains to avoid being held accountable for her crimes," unquote. So how strong of a witness would she be, even in the public mind?
WILLIAMS: Well, I don't think she'd be very strong in the public mind. And remember the nature of the crimes that she's been convicted of. You're talking about sex offenses that involved minors. And I don't know that if the public, in its rush to get more information about this case, really understands what it would take to get there from Ghislaine Maxwell, given the nature - you know, the background on her.
I would also note how many years it's been since this all transpired. There have been ample opportunities across now two different - I guess you can call them three different presidential administrations to get information out of her. So it's really hard to determine what new could actually come out.
This really is about quelling public or internet speculation far more than going after people who have committed crimes, I think.
MARTIN: And if the DOJ were to get more information from Maxwell, would any of it be made public?
WILLIAMS: I have a hard time seeing that it would, only because there's a long-standing practice within - among prosecutors not to release information about people who are being investigated or who might be charged with crimes. And that's exactly who would be issue here. If, in fact, she discloses information about, say, someone who might have committed a sex act or might have committed some other violent crime or anything else, you can't release that to the public.
That's - those are all sensitive, law-enforcement-sensitive, grand jury or whatever other materials. And so this idea that Todd Blanche is going to sit down with Ghislaine Maxwell in prison, transcribe an interview with her and then immediately send it to NPR for the world to see is simply nonsense. It would not happen.
Now, the fact of the interview would be public. Perhaps the Justice Department could say, but I don't know.
MARTIN: So is there a bigger issue here with potentially releasing grand jury testimony, just in the 20 seconds that we have left?
WILLIAMS: Yes. You know, there's a reason why prosecutors don't ever release grand jury testimony. It's because of how sensitive it is, and the risk of revealing information about people who are accused of but not charged with crime is profound. We don't do it as a country. A functioning law enforcement system simply shouldn't and ought not do that.
MARTIN: That's Elliot Williams. He's a legal analyst and former deputy assistant attorney general during the Obama administration. Elliot, thanks so much for joining us once again.
WILLIAMS: Great to talk to you, Michel.
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